(no subject)

[dmxrated]

Watched this documentary called Indie Game yesterday on Roku. I've actually noticed it on the archives for a while, but Mom suggested I give it a watch after I had a breakdown following the total price Jake estimated that someone he knew would charge for some spritesheets alone.

Not that I actually thought anything would be cheap, but there is the fact that Dad didn't immediately have much for me to do besides vacuuming the basement when I first asked him about stuff I could do for money. I've only made two bank deposits recently, raising my personal budget to so far just $388.

This is why I desperately need a job, before I commission for anything at all. Doesn't help that the agencies that were supposed to have expertise in finding work, and were supposed to be acquainted with people who were willing to hire autistic folks, hardly actually did anything meaningful for three years after I finished college until Mom and I both decided to sever ties with VESID after that whole deal with Community Enterprises.

So far, Mom and I have been meaning to go over this book together covering job-seeking advice for autistic people. However, she did notice a link to the Occupational Outlook Handbook website, and advised me to have a look at that, but I'm gonna need her help on where to start looking and what to rule out on that site.

-----

Yeah, about that movie... As you'd expect, the folks behind Fez, Braid, and Super Meatboy among other games were just a few individuals who got together and decided to live out their dreams while also having their games published for Xbox Live Arcade. One of the first things even said in the film was that part of it is about not trying to be professional or trying to cater to the masses. And yet, even though Fez got fucked up due to some last-minute changes to its coding, the other two sold extremely well despite being simple platforming games.

Of course, none of those games have any deep story to them, which is the #1 thing I've been seeking for Starbound (more so than even the game itself, with only the original flavor of the Earthbound trilogy taking equal priority). Seeking more collaborators for Starbound's story was the whole point behind starting my pursuit of a game demonstration in the first place, which would then be placed on YouTube to attract fans of both Lucky Star and the Earthbound trilogy, where in turn I would open up storyboarding as just one of the different aspects of the game available for anyone interested.

Sent an email to the Mother 4 development team last night, asking for tips on how to get my own project off the ground. Whether they actually get back to me or not is up in the air. According to Jake, though, they probably needed to hire a studio rather than individuals in order to get storyboarders among others for the project, but that can't be right since they don't actually own the rights to the Earthbound property and will be distributing the game online for free when it's done.

Here are all the staff, btw.

-----

In any case, I'm already tired of thinking about either version of Starbound at this point. Right now, I'm just gonna have a break from the whole thing, like I did between the fanfic's second and third chapters, and find other stuff to focus on. Namely, back to JavaScript, since Brian will be coming back home in just a couple of weeks.

I will still be in charge of creating prototype maps for at least the overworld, since those need to be at least somewhat consistent with their real-world counterparts. When I get back to that, I'm probably gonna be using screenshots of Google Maps to utilize in Gimp, and create a layer over those on which to decide what to reproduce, where, and how.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

Chelle:

It might just be more cost efficient to use the sprites you already have. You can't really avoid compromises entirely while on a project this big.

I hadn't seen this before I got your note, the M4 reference makes sense now in context. I guess my reply was kinda redundant. I'm not really sure what you asked about now, though, if not the deal with hiring studios.

If the website's popular, they might not get back if their inboxes are swamped and they do a purge, or it may take a while.

[dmxrated]

It might just be more cost efficient to use the sprites you already have. You can't really avoid compromises entirely while on a project this big.

Either way, those sprites are the only ones I ever created. Once I'm done with that JavaScript book (which Mom, Dad, and Brian have gotten on my case to continue with at separate times), I'll decide then what to take upon myself to create instead of commissioning for (or cutting altogether, in cases of aesthetic stuff like voice-acting). That would include everyone's sprites whom I still don't have, which I'll probably start in pencil before digitizing in Gimp.

I hadn't seen this before I got your note, the M4 reference makes sense now in context. I guess my reply was kinda redundant. I'm not really sure what you asked about now, though, if not the deal with hiring studios.

No, I sent you the note last night. I posted this entry just this morning, after having read your reply.

Here's the thing: It's a well-known fact that ideas alone are too cheap for anyone to have any reason to fund. If one wants funding, they need to prove themselves capable of actually putting something together and willing to commit themselves to it, even if they need to form relationships with total strangers first.

This whole thing is a form of telescoping, not just with the story, but for what actually defined the Earthbound trilogy. It all goes like this:

Goal: To develop the story and maintain the original flavor of the canon games.

To get that: I need to find people who are more capable of that than I am.

To enlist their help: I need to get people interested in the first place. Anyone could fit that qualification, but it wouldn't do any good to simply go around harvesting email addresses and asking them. Same as if you're a job employer looking for people you don't even know yet to fill positions for you. Going to a forum might work better than that, but probably not much, since it would constitute a form of soliciting. (I once did that before with The Furrysitters' Club, and only got ridiculed until the thread was locked.)

To get people interested: I need to go somewhere where it would be more appropriate to advertise positions.

Two of those places would be: Job Offers and YouTube. The former is self-explanatory; the latter is a good place to host something tagged with both "Lucky Star" and "Earthbound"; even though it isn't EB-related per se, it will still run in a similar vein, just like how Rosenkreuzstilette had attracted fans of both Mega Man and Castlevania as a Spiritual Adaptation in terms of gameplay and tone respectively.

And, of course, a website dedicated specifically to that game, just like Mother 4 has. That is, if I'm able to create one.

And so on...

Feel free to point out anything wrong with this kind of logic if you see fit to. However, with the fic alone, you did say before that soliciting for ideas under the guise of "invitation" will only turn people off, since they'll know that it really means it's probably gonna stop midway through. This seems like a paradox of sorts when combined with the fact you had also mentioned before that most stories aren't the product of just one person with a brilliant mind.

[(Anonymous)]

If one wants funding, they need to prove themselves capable of actually putting something together and willing to commit themselves to it, even if they need to form relationships with total strangers first.

Actually, no. The proving yourself capable usually comes before striking up ties with others. It's what proof you can deliver that makes strangers interested in supporting you.

One crucial thing's missing from that telescope : you need something substantial to get people interested. You speak like the only obstacle to getting people interested has to do with locations to advertise. But how are you going to get other people passionate enough to want to be involved with the project?

You have two things to build strength on : story experience and game mechanics. Can you advertise either of those? You mentioned a demo before, what exactly did you have in mind? (Don't require people to download it, ideally you have a site where they can try it out right in the browser.)

This seems like a paradox of sorts when combined with the fact you had also mentioned before that most stories aren't the product of just one person with a brilliant mind.

Most movies and games are a product of multiple people who works together for optimal story combined with visuals, music, mechanics, production, acting, lightning, atmosphere, etc, all within the timeframe that they have to produce something.

Most published books and fanfictions come from only one mind who had no deadline to meet, and editors only come in later. Furthermore, publishing a WIP fic online and asking strangers for ideas =/= working in the privacy of a home to write a novel or the privacy of a studio setting where any help is hired and understands what the final product will be.

Different platforms, different media, different settings, different restraints and times. Where's the paradox?

[dmxrated]

One crucial thing's missing from that telescope : you need something substantial to get people interested. You speak like the only obstacle to getting people interested has to do with locations to advertise. But how are you going to get other people passionate enough to want to be involved with the project?

That's exactly what I plan for the demo to be. That would have been the rest of it: To either create stuff myself to be assembled, or commission others through Job Offers, since I'm not likely gonna be able to do everything on my own.

You have two things to build strength on : story experience and game mechanics. Can you advertise either of those? You mentioned a demo before, what exactly did you have in mind? (Don't require people to download it, ideally you have a site where they can try it out right in the browser.)

Yes, I will make a point of exploring how the game would work. Gonna have to anyway, in order to give either Brian or Matthew (or anyone else interested) an idea of what kind of game engine I'll be needing.

Different platforms, different media, different settings, different restraints and times. Where's the paradox?

More specifically, you said not to wait until I have a perfect outline, with each arc in place and all plotholes fixed, before finally getting started. That seemed to imply that, putting everything else aside, all blanks in the plot would be filled in along the way via group discussion before each of those parts of the story are actually written.

Anyway, yeah, if I do find myself able to continue with the fic at any point, then the game will be just an end unto itself. Again, I'll be sure to describe what the game would be like as well.

[(Anonymous)]

My point was that you're probably gonna have to get at least the demo on its foot on your own. I've read you talk a lot about how to get a team, and heard very little about plans for the gameplay itself.

Yes, I will make a point of exploring how the game would work.

I meant, what will it be? A combat scene, an exploration scene?

More specifically, you said not to wait until I have a perfect outline, with each arc in place and all plotholes fixed, before finally getting started.

I said that about your fanfiction, because you were not and still are not making much progress, so I advised you work on the stuff you already know so at least something gets done. I said this several times, and the context was always "How to write a novel".

Then we had a conversation about games and publishing. Right above, I'm advising you to just stop fretting about a team and work on what's already available. For a game, you're going to need more people for the stuff like bg and so on. Letting them help with the story is also optional. This doesn't take away from the advice that you should work on what you already know.

Again, where is the paradox?

That seemed to imply that, putting everything else aside, all blanks in the plot would be filled in along the way via group discussion before each of those parts of the story are actually written.

Fanfiction writing is not the same as game creation. I meant that you shouldn't wait with actually writing anything till you have it all sorted out. How do you take that to mean "you should wait with actually writing anything until you have a team"? That's the opposite of it.

[(Anonymous)]

Chelle:

Here's an overview of points I made to clear up what I mean, since you seem hidden meanings into it.

# Creating a story in any format isn't likely to involve a perfect outline within a reasonable time. Some people can do that, they are authors who work like architects. However, it's been years and you still don't have such an detailed outline, so the architect approach isn't likely to work for you.
Hence I suggested the gardener approach : take your vague idea and fill in the patches you already know, ideas might spring up in the process. Make a crappy first draft, come back later to edit it as necessary. If you don't know what to do with relevant scenes, write a quick paragraph describing the key events and move on.

In regards to your story, you seem to want to do it architect style but you're just stuck. I had that too, I had to fight to get my brain to do something else. You already have a load of specific plot points you could just grab and write for, thus creating a ground for new ideas to spring up in the process. Once you've got the roll of that, the story might seem less intimidating.

# If you put story in a creative context like a tv series, especially when there's a deadline, it's especially useful to have multiple people to pitch in ideas and write scripts. Not all authors need help with the story from such a team, but they do need input from financial managers and animation directors on what is and isn't possible. An example of a writer team is Michiko Yokote, who consists of a plot writer, dialog writer and coordinator. Each works by their strengths. Script writers per episode are often hired to write individual episodes per outline of the story creators, like with MCK.
Sometimes the multiple story workers thing works. Sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes it's a disaster. Asking strangers who read your fic, who know virtually nothing about atmosphere and intent and goal, for ideas is more likely to get you nowhere.

In regards to your game, a team might be the best for you, but that doesn't mean you should use it as crutch and to not try writing/coding/designing anything you're unsure about, waiting for others to do it for you.

I've spoken about four things, how you approach stories, how authors approach stories, how you approach a game, how games are generally approached. I think you muddled up those four into one point, though I still don't see where that paradox comes from.

My overall point for the story : get rid of the idea that all blanks must be filled in before something is written at all. Finish a first draft before worrying about anything. Trying to gather a team or wanting a perfect outline are both you worrying and not writing.

My overall point for the game : just focus on what you yourself can create for that demo. If you had a breakdown over prices merely for a first draft demo, you're probably too attached to the perfection of what you want.

[dmxrated]

I meant, what will it be? A combat scene, an exploration scene?

The demo, if it will be created, would cover everything from the opening menu sequence to possibly the investigation scene at the twins' house. Thus, it would cover things like cutscenes and dialogue, exploration, combat, menu screens, and even the game-over sequence.

I said that about your fanfiction, because you were not and still are not making much progress, so I advised you work on the stuff you already know so at least something gets done. I said this several times, and the context was always "How to write a novel".

Okay. So, soon as I get back to the story at all, along with finishing Rokuna's sidefic, I'll be sure to write what I can the other two sidefics, Daví's debut, the party's forced separation, Tristan's debut, the Hooters storyline, everything that's still planned to actually happen during the break, M's debut as the party sets to save Akira, and the first part of the endgame chapters.

Didn't tackle any of it before mainly due to a lack of the same inspiration that drove me to write the rest of the endgame chapters and the scrapped Hunt Club chapters. Would continue today, but Mom has urged me to continue with JavaScript, lest I disappoint Brian by having nothing to show him when he comes home soon. If you'd like, though, we could discuss any of the points I specified in some kind of detail at some point before I actually do get started. (Don't worry; I won't bother you with the actual completed chapters until they're actually due.)

Again, where is the paradox?

The supposed paradox was the conflict I perceived between "I'm practically on my own with the storybuilding" and "These things are the product of multiple people and multiple drafts." With the latter, I assumed that that applied to even the storywriting itself, since we weren't even talking about any other roles at the time (which you only mentioned up in your second comment to this entry).

[(Anonymous)]

That's possibly too elaborate, taking lots of time to complete. I'd suggest focusing on stuff like exploration that leads to combat, rather than trying to create a full chapter of the game. More like a promotional entry rather than an actual part of the game.

Javascript's relevant to this, so yeah, go with that first.

The supposed paradox was the conflict I perceived between "I'm practically on my own with the storybuilding" and "These things are the product of multiple people and multiple drafts." With the latter, I assumed that that applied to even the storywriting itself,

Multiple drafts do apply to the story, whether or not you're working with a team to put something together. You're kind of already doing a first draft.

[dmxrated]

That's possibly too elaborate, taking lots of time to complete. I'd suggest focusing on stuff like exploration that leads to combat, rather than trying to create a full chapter of the game. More like a promotional entry rather than an actual part of the game.

I think I might take that, and just create comparisons between it and the canon games exploring various aspects such as the startup sequence, menu screens, dialogue, exploration, battles, pre- and in-battle animations, and so on.

Also considering at this point using the sprites I already created for at least the demo, improving just the coloration for the time being. Creating better sprites later on (which the mains of that film showed how they did w/ Braid as they went along) will most likely be one of the last things I do with the actual product, if I even have time or money to do so. Ditto with all other graphics in general.

[dmxrated]

Having had thought things through last night, I'd say at this point that the only real issue left is about recapturing the atmosphere the EB trilogy.

To start with, I once asked Jake to read the fan-novelization Earthbound 199X to see if its author did just that. However, when I brought it up on The Fanfiction Forum, someone told me that trying to capture the feeling of the original work by looking at someone else's fan-adaptation isn't a good way to go on about it. I told him then that reading it would be a moot point.

Later on, when I read a chapter or two of Jake's Pokemon fic Pokemon Johto: The Funne Version to compare to the EB trilogy, I commented in an email that it would be more comparable to Arn's Winter Quest than to the regular EB games. He told me that he wasn't trying to emulate anything, and was instead just trying to be funny in his own way (which I wouldn't be surprised if that's what Saori Kumi did as well when writing Mother: The Original Story).

The thing is, I just don't want the Hooters situation and a moment where Tristan gets briefly superpowered to be the only humorous moments or aspects not taken right from the games. (The former was Jake's idea, and the latter is based on something from Yoshi's Island.) We both know that humor is neither my strong point nor yours. However, you already did suggest I derive stuff from dreams, so there is that at least.

In any case, I suppose I could settle for something more similar to 199X than to Earthbound itself, as long as it's not always too dark and gritty (which it will be sometimes). So, even though that fic is dead at this point, would it be okay if I ask you to give it a read, and then we discuss how to keep in line with that whenever we talk about my fic at all?

Edit: Actually, not really sure why I just asked you to read that fic, since you wouldn't really be able to make any kind of comparison between it and the original game, not having played the game. If anything, I suppose I should consider my own fic already in line with that one. You might still find the fic interesting in and of itself, though.

[(Anonymous)]

I tend to not bother with emulating original flavor either, since quite often it's not the flavor I like stuff for (setting and characters are), and if I do like the flavor, it a flavor something that comes naturally to me anyway. So I don't really have much advise beyond what I've already given, sorry.