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Oct. 6th, 2014 05:56 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
dmxratedUncle Robby and Cousin Adam came back, and Aunt Allison, Uncle Blas, Cousin Steven, and Steven's girlfriend Jordan also came over for our early Christmas get-together. Ate dinner and dessert together, exchanged gifts, had pictures taken, and so on before everyone left. (Grandma might still be here, unless she left after I had gone to bed.)
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As long as you continue to make this more serious than silly, I'm calling shenanigans on this.
-Jake, during our last exchange regarding Starbound's place on that sliding scale. Ever since then, I've decided to just keep things simple regarding Starbound and just stick with what comes naturally to me. I've been figuring that if I ever do look into a game,I might allow anyone interested in working on the game to make it more Earthbound-like if they so wish to, while deciding where to draw lines. Given how canonically reasonable the Lucky Star franchise is in general (w/ certain exceptions) and how really far out the Earthbound trilogy gets, I found myself questioning such an idea. To settle that, I recently wrote something about it in my notebook the other day, to show Brian when he's home.
Before the following cut, let me just explain (and I brought this up with Brian as well) why I tend to perceive Earthbound's humor as somewhat "tame", despite all evidence to the contrary. First of all, he did say that the reason I can tolerate something like the Earthbound trilogy but not Mon Colle Knights, UFO Ultramaiden Valkyrie, or Fairy Tail, is because in a game, you're playing to win a challenge, so you just roll with whatever it throws at you, whereas with an anime, you just want to be entertained, so you have nothing to gain by watching anything you deem cringeworthy. However, there is also the fact that, unlike in Mother 3, both Earthbound and Earthbound Zero are minimally animated, with most of what goes on being described rather than shown. That waters things down somewhat. And finally, of course, the plot itself does take itself somewhat seriously, such as after you defeat Ness's Nightmare and read about what's going on at that point. Brian and I both also agree on all three points regarding Super Mario RPG, which, while the humor is still obvious enough, feels somewhat more "reasonable" than most other installments in the Mario franchise. (Ditto with Makeruna! Makendou Z, compared to its three prequels, if you ask me.)
That said, while I probably wouldn't want Starbound/Day of the Beehive to go the whole way to resemble Earthbound, I did make a list of things I liked about the EB trilogy (particularly the first two games), and there are some forms of humor I'd likely more than welcome. First list first:
1) Songs and jingles shared between games. For example, Earthbound's Buy Somethin', Will Ya?" is an extended remix of EB0's Humoresque of a Little Dog, and Master Belch's base has a remixed version of what plays in Sweet Little's Factory, Duncan's Factory, or George's Laboratory. Meanwhile, while EB0 has different jingles or sound effects from EB and Mother 3 for when you obtain an item, someone joins your party, or before a battle begins, these are both the same in the latter two games, which leave one to think that more could be done with the graphics and audio in general.
2) Minimal, simple animation.
3) The battle system (at least in Earthbound).
4) Graphical staples, such as gift boxes, garbage cans, holes, etc.
5) The general atmosphere. (EB has the same flavor as EB0, but a lot more feel to it.)
6) The text style.
7) People join you. Some temporarily, others for the ride. (Jingles to boot.)
8) Stat capsules, and stats themselves (i.e. Speed, Force/Luck, Fight/Guts, Wisdom/IQ, and Strength/Vitality).
9) Recovering HP (and/or in some cases, PP) by eating different kinds of food.
10) To begin with, nostalgia, basically.
Now, about what I'd be willing to incorporate as far as humor goes, either during the fanfic's run or if I ever actually do look into making the game adaptation:
1) Finding stuff in gift boxes and garbage cans was one of my favorite things about the Earthbound trilogy. Jake did mention in the aforementioned exchange that 1) part of EB's humor comes from being able to find perfectly usable or edible stuff inside a trash can, and 2) since EB0 was designed as a clone of Dragon Warrior, said trash cans and gift boxes were intended as the equivalents to treasure chests, which would be even more out-of-place in such a modern setting as the trilogy takes place in.
2) Keeping the dialogue nice and witty is perfect.
3) About items in general, Jake did tell me before that the what some of them (such as toothbrushes) do and how they work, and the lack of any real use of others (such as rulers and trivia cards) is exactly part of EB's sense of humor. EB0 even has "real rockets", which blast off the moment you buy them. There are some things, though, where I might draw the line for being too comical. (Honey showers in M3, for example, cover enemies in honey in order to attract a swarm of bees out of nowhere to sting them.)
4) While the vast variety of food items in EB and M3 already appeals to me in and of itself, that of M3 also includes "quirky" things like Pasta With a Past, Rich Kid Stew, King Burgers, Big City Burgers, Fizzy Soda, Hot Spring Eggs, Lotto Meals, and so on.
5) Contrived coincidences. This is something Ness brings up w/ Paula between Twoson and Threed in Earthbound 199X. Two other examples take place consecutively in EB0. First, is when Ninten, in order to befriend and recruit Loyd, goes to Sweet Little's Factory south of Merrysville to seek a bottle rocket, to come back with to show him. Then, the two of them head north to Duncan's Factory, in order to set off an in-place bottle rocket, to destroy a boulder sitting on some train tracks. (Whether they still even had control over it after launching it seems ambiguous.)
6) As far as surrealness goes, I should mention that acid trips such as Moonside, Magicant, and Tanetane Island are already equivalent to the likes of Oz and Wonderland. While I don't intend in general to go as far as something like Digimon, I might be okay with stuff like EB0's Canary Village, EB's Saturn Valley and Tenda Village, and talking rocks, in limited parts of the world secluded from humanity. The mana spots, their guardians, and denizens of their lairs, all naturally would fall under this as well. And, something like Dungeon Man could conceivably be one of the world's lesser-recognized monuments.
7) Out-of-place as some enemies that the mains had fought in Starbound, chapter 1, may be, I don't particularly regret showcasing them, or having Rokuna say something at the end of said chapter about magic butterflies. In fact, if the actual LS franchise spawned any kind of games that involved enemies to kill, I'm pretty sure said enemies would be somewhat unrealistic, if mainly for the sake of cuteness.
8) And then we have Jake's idea for a Hooters restaurant, which he suggested be a cover for an alien factory (while still doing actual business). Farfetched as it may be, I happened to like it nonetheless. Chelle later said that it could work reasonably well (unlike, say, having Tristan become temporarily superpowered a la Baby Mario in order to fight through said factory to catch up with the party, which would also raise some headscratchers if never brought up again). Jake did indirectly admit later that he had perversion on mind upon coming up with it, but I'm sure he also figured that it would be funny enough to fit into something EB-like.
9) And then of course, there's the sumo fic, which is unrelated but still an LS fic. While certain preparations for what that's all about (as well as the entire concept itself) had even more to do with fanservice (as did Jake's Hooters idea) than with the Rule of Funny, some might equate the way this kind of "selection" works with Cloudy With a Chance of Meatballs, where Flint's machine attacks "all the recognizable locations first, and then the rest of the world" after gaining sentience and going berserk (one of those things I'd draw a line at). Actually, while still intended as humorous, this whole thing was partly inspired from No Birds, No Bees, in which the world's entire male population had been killed by a mysterious force that somehow didn't affect anyone female directly (not meant for laughs, as one can tell). Chelle did suggest that the characters question any magic existing LS-verse, which I was sure to fulfill.
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Really, the lines are kinda blurred as to what I'm willing to accept, but something like "oven-mitt-shaped bodysuits" or "The Universal Translator"? Forget it. The Magé Stones, Robin's arsenal, and this fic's version of MCK's Stove Dragon, among anything else, are all gonna follow rules of some sort or another, none of which will allow for full-out cartoon physics.
(Oh, and what I hyperlinked to? Especially worth noting, because the original films were probably more reasonable (at least for sci-fi standards, though I never actually watched them), and because a Universal Translator is exactly what the Magé Stones aren't as far as communication goes.)
-----
As long as you continue to make this more serious than silly, I'm calling shenanigans on this.
-Jake, during our last exchange regarding Starbound's place on that sliding scale. Ever since then, I've decided to just keep things simple regarding Starbound and just stick with what comes naturally to me. I've been figuring that if I ever do look into a game,I might allow anyone interested in working on the game to make it more Earthbound-like if they so wish to, while deciding where to draw lines. Given how canonically reasonable the Lucky Star franchise is in general (w/ certain exceptions) and how really far out the Earthbound trilogy gets, I found myself questioning such an idea. To settle that, I recently wrote something about it in my notebook the other day, to show Brian when he's home.
Before the following cut, let me just explain (and I brought this up with Brian as well) why I tend to perceive Earthbound's humor as somewhat "tame", despite all evidence to the contrary. First of all, he did say that the reason I can tolerate something like the Earthbound trilogy but not Mon Colle Knights, UFO Ultramaiden Valkyrie, or Fairy Tail, is because in a game, you're playing to win a challenge, so you just roll with whatever it throws at you, whereas with an anime, you just want to be entertained, so you have nothing to gain by watching anything you deem cringeworthy. However, there is also the fact that, unlike in Mother 3, both Earthbound and Earthbound Zero are minimally animated, with most of what goes on being described rather than shown. That waters things down somewhat. And finally, of course, the plot itself does take itself somewhat seriously, such as after you defeat Ness's Nightmare and read about what's going on at that point. Brian and I both also agree on all three points regarding Super Mario RPG, which, while the humor is still obvious enough, feels somewhat more "reasonable" than most other installments in the Mario franchise. (Ditto with Makeruna! Makendou Z, compared to its three prequels, if you ask me.)
That said, while I probably wouldn't want Starbound/Day of the Beehive to go the whole way to resemble Earthbound, I did make a list of things I liked about the EB trilogy (particularly the first two games), and there are some forms of humor I'd likely more than welcome. First list first:
1) Songs and jingles shared between games. For example, Earthbound's Buy Somethin', Will Ya?" is an extended remix of EB0's Humoresque of a Little Dog, and Master Belch's base has a remixed version of what plays in Sweet Little's Factory, Duncan's Factory, or George's Laboratory. Meanwhile, while EB0 has different jingles or sound effects from EB and Mother 3 for when you obtain an item, someone joins your party, or before a battle begins, these are both the same in the latter two games, which leave one to think that more could be done with the graphics and audio in general.
2) Minimal, simple animation.
3) The battle system (at least in Earthbound).
4) Graphical staples, such as gift boxes, garbage cans, holes, etc.
5) The general atmosphere. (EB has the same flavor as EB0, but a lot more feel to it.)
6) The text style.
7) People join you. Some temporarily, others for the ride. (Jingles to boot.)
8) Stat capsules, and stats themselves (i.e. Speed, Force/Luck, Fight/Guts, Wisdom/IQ, and Strength/Vitality).
9) Recovering HP (and/or in some cases, PP) by eating different kinds of food.
10) To begin with, nostalgia, basically.
Now, about what I'd be willing to incorporate as far as humor goes, either during the fanfic's run or if I ever actually do look into making the game adaptation:
1) Finding stuff in gift boxes and garbage cans was one of my favorite things about the Earthbound trilogy. Jake did mention in the aforementioned exchange that 1) part of EB's humor comes from being able to find perfectly usable or edible stuff inside a trash can, and 2) since EB0 was designed as a clone of Dragon Warrior, said trash cans and gift boxes were intended as the equivalents to treasure chests, which would be even more out-of-place in such a modern setting as the trilogy takes place in.
2) Keeping the dialogue nice and witty is perfect.
3) About items in general, Jake did tell me before that the what some of them (such as toothbrushes) do and how they work, and the lack of any real use of others (such as rulers and trivia cards) is exactly part of EB's sense of humor. EB0 even has "real rockets", which blast off the moment you buy them. There are some things, though, where I might draw the line for being too comical. (Honey showers in M3, for example, cover enemies in honey in order to attract a swarm of bees out of nowhere to sting them.)
4) While the vast variety of food items in EB and M3 already appeals to me in and of itself, that of M3 also includes "quirky" things like Pasta With a Past, Rich Kid Stew, King Burgers, Big City Burgers, Fizzy Soda, Hot Spring Eggs, Lotto Meals, and so on.
5) Contrived coincidences. This is something Ness brings up w/ Paula between Twoson and Threed in Earthbound 199X. Two other examples take place consecutively in EB0. First, is when Ninten, in order to befriend and recruit Loyd, goes to Sweet Little's Factory south of Merrysville to seek a bottle rocket, to come back with to show him. Then, the two of them head north to Duncan's Factory, in order to set off an in-place bottle rocket, to destroy a boulder sitting on some train tracks. (Whether they still even had control over it after launching it seems ambiguous.)
6) As far as surrealness goes, I should mention that acid trips such as Moonside, Magicant, and Tanetane Island are already equivalent to the likes of Oz and Wonderland. While I don't intend in general to go as far as something like Digimon, I might be okay with stuff like EB0's Canary Village, EB's Saturn Valley and Tenda Village, and talking rocks, in limited parts of the world secluded from humanity. The mana spots, their guardians, and denizens of their lairs, all naturally would fall under this as well. And, something like Dungeon Man could conceivably be one of the world's lesser-recognized monuments.
7) Out-of-place as some enemies that the mains had fought in Starbound, chapter 1, may be, I don't particularly regret showcasing them, or having Rokuna say something at the end of said chapter about magic butterflies. In fact, if the actual LS franchise spawned any kind of games that involved enemies to kill, I'm pretty sure said enemies would be somewhat unrealistic, if mainly for the sake of cuteness.
8) And then we have Jake's idea for a Hooters restaurant, which he suggested be a cover for an alien factory (while still doing actual business). Farfetched as it may be, I happened to like it nonetheless. Chelle later said that it could work reasonably well (unlike, say, having Tristan become temporarily superpowered a la Baby Mario in order to fight through said factory to catch up with the party, which would also raise some headscratchers if never brought up again). Jake did indirectly admit later that he had perversion on mind upon coming up with it, but I'm sure he also figured that it would be funny enough to fit into something EB-like.
9) And then of course, there's the sumo fic, which is unrelated but still an LS fic. While certain preparations for what that's all about (as well as the entire concept itself) had even more to do with fanservice (as did Jake's Hooters idea) than with the Rule of Funny, some might equate the way this kind of "selection" works with Cloudy With a Chance of Meatballs, where Flint's machine attacks "all the recognizable locations first, and then the rest of the world" after gaining sentience and going berserk (one of those things I'd draw a line at). Actually, while still intended as humorous, this whole thing was partly inspired from No Birds, No Bees, in which the world's entire male population had been killed by a mysterious force that somehow didn't affect anyone female directly (not meant for laughs, as one can tell). Chelle did suggest that the characters question any magic existing LS-verse, which I was sure to fulfill.
-----
Really, the lines are kinda blurred as to what I'm willing to accept, but something like "oven-mitt-shaped bodysuits" or "The Universal Translator"? Forget it. The Magé Stones, Robin's arsenal, and this fic's version of MCK's Stove Dragon, among anything else, are all gonna follow rules of some sort or another, none of which will allow for full-out cartoon physics.
(Oh, and what I hyperlinked to? Especially worth noting, because the original films were probably more reasonable (at least for sci-fi standards, though I never actually watched them), and because a Universal Translator is exactly what the Magé Stones aren't as far as communication goes.)
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no subject
Date: 2014-10-07 10:18 pm (UTC)1: This is one thing which is up to whoever cares. I don't find it as funny as you do, for instance, and while I wouldn't do away with it, I would probably just have it there. Or something.
3: What's wrong with honey showers? It's a bomb that summons bees. It can be seen as throwing a beehive at the target. Maybe that's even what it's supposed to be.
5: I'm really not sure if those are really Contrived Coincidences like that. Term is kinda dull anyway.
6: I don't get the issue implied there [that there's stuff you disapprove of].
7: Probably. Was the criticism that severe on them?
8: Gee, thanks. More seriously, perverted or not, a big inspiration for that one was Master Belch's factory. The Hooters side comes because it doesn't have a videogame counterpart and I was in the mood to come up with one as well.
9: No. Don't speak from an abstract point of view ["some might equate that"] to presume a non-existing audience thinks it's Comedy. Your sumo fic is not created for comedy or humor so much as for your fetishes. Forgive my rudeness at this point, but you're grasping at straws in an attempt to justify yourself further when you don't have to.
no subject
Date: 2019-11-21 02:14 pm (UTC)In general, I'm not sure how to answer most of what you said right now. However, a lot of this stems from one thing Chelle said to me a year and a half ago:
So I'm taking it you want to forego Lucky Star's slice of life comedy in favor of Starbound's surreal comedy? The characters would notice that something is off about their universe because all that surreal stuff didn't exist until the invasion, and if the fabric of reality suddenly alters so significantly that random insanity starts happening, they'd try to connect it to the alien threat even if it wasn't actually connected. They've lived in a pretty reasonable world until so far.
I know she didn't actually say that to turn the world on its head was a bad idea (her point was for the characters to question it in-story), that particular quote (and particularly the first sentence) is something that's been making me feel guilty about it. I mean, there are others who have done similar (such as songoku2006) w/ his Lucky Powers anthology), but... really, I'm not sure how to explain things well enough yet.